Legislature(2023 - 2024)GRUENBERG 120
05/08/2023 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB129 | |
| HB11 | |
| HB181 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 129 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 11 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 181 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 11-CRIME: ASSAULT IN THE PRESENCE OF A CHILD
4:29:02 PM
CHAIR VANCE announced that the next order of business would be
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 11, "An Act establishing
the crime of assault in the presence of a child."
4:29:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 2 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.4, Radford, 4/20/23, which read:
Page 1, line 1, following "child":
Insert "or an unborn child"
Page 1, line 4, following "child":
Insert "or an unborn child"
Page 1, line 5, following "child":
Insert "or an unborn child"
Page 1, line 7, following "age":
Insert "or an unborn child"
Page 1, line 11, following "child":
Insert "or an unborn child"
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY objected.
4:29:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 2 made violence
in the present of a child "or an unborn child" a crime. He
reasoned that the calculation of adverse childhood experiences
(ACEs) began in the womb and therefore, the impact of violent
situations on the unborn child should be considered.
4:30:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether the fetus needed to be of a
certain age to qualify. He asked whether the crime would apply
to a woman who did not know she was pregnant because it was
early in the pregnancy.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN responded that the bill anticipated a
certain level of reckless disregard for the presence of a child,
which would remain unchanged by Amendment 2. He argued that the
same legal liability would apply to a 5-year-old child and a
child in the womb.
4:32:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1 to
Amendment 2 to replace "or an unborn child" with "unfertilized
human eggs or human sperm."
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD objected.
4:33:12 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
4:33:43 PM
[A roll call vote was taken, which was voided due to an
incorrect tally].
4:34:49 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
4:35:37 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representative Gray voted in favor
of Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 2. Representatives C.
Johnson, Eastman, Groh, Allard, Carpenter, and Vance voted
against it. Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 2
failed by a vote of 1-6.
CHAIR VANCE invited the bill sponsor to share his position on
Amendment 2.
4:36:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ANDY JOSEPHSON, Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor of SSHB 11, declined to share a position on Amendment 2.
He pointed out that unborn children were protected under Alaska
law with class A and B felonies - depending on the severity of
the injury - when a fetus was seriously physically injured.
4:37:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD sought clarification on whether an unborn
child was protected under the law.
JOHN SKIDMORE, Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department
of Law (DOL), confirmed that the assault on a fetus was
criminalized. He noted, however, that SSHB 11 was criminalizing
violence in the presence of a child, or in the case of Amendment
2, in the presence of an unborn child. He confirmed that ACEs
expressly referred to the ages of 0 to 17; however, he was not
aware of the information referenced by Representative Eastman
suggesting that ACEs applied to unborn children.
4:40:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY posited that Amendment 2 was about "not
committing an assault in front of a woman" because a woman's
uterus was not transparent and therefore, the fetus could not
visually witness the assault crime. He argued that should
Amendment 2 pass, all witnesses to an assault would need to
submit a pregnancy test to ensure that [assault in the presence
of a child] could be prosecuted. He asked whether that would
require an additional fiscal note.
4:41:12 PM
MR. SKIDMORE clarified that no fiscal note would be required
because there was no legal obligation to file every single
charge possible. Nonetheless, he agreed that should Amendment 2
pass, there would be significant proof problems for prosecutors
to establish who was pregnant at the time. He explained that
the crime would require the offender to be reckless as to the
fact that a woman in the vicinity was pregnant, which would be
difficult to prove.
CHAIR VANCE shared a personal anecdote and a hypothetical
scenario. She questioned the burden of proof required of
assault in the presence of a child.
MR. SKIDMORE clarified that the law did not require the
prosecutor to prove harm to the child [or unborn child]. He
explained that the negative impact of the ACEs score was the
rational for passing the law; however, it wasn't material to the
prosecution. Instead, the prosecutor would be required to
demonstrate that the offender was reckless to the fact that a
child was present at the time of the assault. He added that
should Amendment 2 pass, the offender would have to be reckless
to the presence of a pregnant woman at the time of the assault.
4:47:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked whether there was any proof that
arguments impacted an unborn child in the womb. She stressed
that she did not want the public to perceive her as not being
pro-life.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN suggested that the same question should
be asked of the bill itself, as to whether an assault in the
presence of the child harms the child. Either way, he pointed
out that the level of harm to the child was not material to the
prosecution of the crime. He shared his understanding that
evidence presented to the committee suggested that children,
both born and unborn, were sensitive to environmental stimulus.
Further, that assaults in the home were statistical predictors
of "what's going to happen to that child" later in life. He
argued that the standard should be the same for both children
and unborn children.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked for the definition of "assault in
the presence of the child" and asked whether it could be either
verbal or physical.
MR. SKIDMORE confirmed that assaults resulting in physical
injury as well as threats of imminent physical injury were
included in the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD asked whether it was hard to prove whether
a woman was induced into early labor by the threat of violence.
MR. SKIDMORE said he was not sure what evidence would be needed
to prove that a woman was induced into labor at a particular
time.
4:54:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY clarified that the bill was focused on those
witnessing an assault, as opposed to being assaulted themselves.
He emphasized that assaulting a pregnant woman would be its own
separate crime.
MR. SKIDMORE confirmed that the crime of pushing a pregnant
woman down the stairs, for example, was separate.
4:55:15 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representative Eastman voted in
favor of Amendment 2. Representatives Carpenter, C. Johnson,
Gray, Groh, Allard, and Vance voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 2 failed by a vote of 1-6.
4:55:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 3 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.7, Radford, 4/20/23, which read:
Page 1, line 5, following the second occurrence of
"assault":
Insert "or attempts to commit an assault"
Page 1, line 6, following "assault":
Insert "or attempted assault"
Page 1, line 8, following "assault":
Insert "or attempted assault"
Page 1, line 10, following "assault":
Insert "or attempted assault"
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected.
4:55:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 3 would add "or
attempts to commit an assault" on page 1, line 5 of the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD said she didn't understand the relevance
of Amendment 3.
4:57:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked for the legal definition of attempted
assault
MR. SKIDMORE defined attempt" as someone taking a substantial
step towards committing the target crime. Furthermore,
"attempt" changes the mental state from reckless to intentional,
or in other words, a conscious objective to cause the assault.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked whether swinging on another person and
missing would be an attempted assault.
MR. SKIDMORE answered yes.
4:58:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER opined that a finite resource was being
wasted. He listed the subjects of the forthcoming amendments
from Representative Eastman as follows: promoting suicide,
conspiracy, human trafficking, promoting sex trafficking, and
promoting self-harm, which he characterized as "missing the
point of the bill." He opined that the amendments were a waste
of the committee's time.
4:59:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to table Amendment 3.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
4:59:57 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Allard, Carpenter,
Gray, Groh, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 3.
Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 3
was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
5:00:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 4 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.6, Radford, 4/24/23, which read:
Page 1, line 8, following "occurs":
Insert ", regardless of whether the child is the
target of the assault"
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Amendment 4 would insert
"regardless of whether the child is the target of the assault"
on page 1, line 8 of the bill.
5:01:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to table Amendment 4.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:02:00 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Groh, Allard,
Carpenter, Gray, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment
4. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore,
Amendment 4 was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
5:02:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 5 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.9, Radford, 4/23/23, which read:
Page 1, line 1, following "child":
Insert "; and establishing the crime of
encouraging or promoting suicide in the presence of a
child"
Page 1, line 3:
Delete "a new section"
Insert "new sections"
Page 1, following line 11:
Insert a new section to read:
"Sec. 11.41.245. Encouraging or promoting suicide
in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits the
crime of encouraging or promoting suicide in the
presence of a child if the person encourages another
person to commit suicide or promotes the concept of
suicide to another person with reckless disregard
that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a
child under 16 years of age is present in the
dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging
or promoting occurs.
(b) In this section, "present" means physically
present or within hearing of the encouragement or
promotion of suicide.
(c) Encouraging or promoting suicide in the
presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor."
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment
5.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:02:38 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard,
Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 5.
Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 5
was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
5:03:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 7 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.12, Radford, 4/24/23, which read:
Page 1, line 1, following "child":
Insert "; and establishing the crime of
encouraging or promoting human trafficking in the
presence of a child"
Page 1, following line 11:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 2. AS 11.41 is amended by adding a new
section to read:
Sec. 11.41.367. Encouraging or promoting human
trafficking in the presence of a child. (a) A person
commits the crime of encouraging or promoting human
trafficking in the presence of a child if the person
encourages another person to commit a crime
constituting human trafficking under AS 11.41.360 or
11.41.365 or promotes a crime constituting human
trafficking under AS 11.41.360 or 11.41.365 to another
person with reckless disregard that, at the time of
the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years
of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or
location where the encouraging or promoting occurs.
(b) In this section, "present" means physically
present or within hearing of the encouragement or
promotion of human trafficking.
(c) Encouraging or promoting human trafficking
in the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor."
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment
7.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:03:31 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard,
Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 7.
Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 7
was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
5:03:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 8 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.11, Radford, 4/24/23, which read:
Page 1, line 1, following "child":
Insert "; and establishing the crime of
encouraging or promoting sex trafficking in the
presence of a child"
Page 1, following line 11:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 2. AS 11.66 is amended by adding a new
section to read:
Sec. 11.66.137. Encouraging or promoting sex
trafficking in the presence of a child. (a) A person
commits the crime of encouraging or promoting sex
trafficking in the presence of a child if the person
encourages another person to commit a crime
constituting sex trafficking under AS 11.66.110 -
11.66.135 or promotes a crime constituting sex
trafficking under AS 11.66.110 - 11.66.135 to another
person with reckless disregard that, at the time of
the encouraging or promoting, a child under 16 years
of age is present in the dwelling, vehicle, or
location where the encouraging or promoting occurs.
(b) In this section, "present" means physically
present or within hearing of the encouragement or
promotion of sex trafficking.
(c) Encouraging or promoting sex trafficking in
the presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor."
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment
8.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:04:09 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Gray, Groh, Allard,
Carpenter, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 8.
Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 8
was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
5:04:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Amendment 9 to SSHB 11,
labeled 33-LS0203\S.10, Radford, 4/24/23, which read:
Page 1, line 1, following "child":
Insert "; and establishing the crime of
encouraging or promoting self-harm in the presence of
a child"
Page 1, line 3:
Delete "a new section"
Insert "new sections"
Page 1, following line 11:
Insert a new section to read:
"Sec. 11.41.245. Encouraging or promoting self-
harm in the presence of a child. (a) A person commits
the crime of encouraging or promoting self-harm in the
presence of a child if the person encourages another
person to commit self-harm or promotes the concept of
self-harm to another person with reckless disregard
that, at the time of the encouraging or promoting, a
child under 16 years of age is present in the
dwelling, vehicle, or location where the encouraging
or promoting occurs.
(b) In this section, "present" means physically
present or within hearing of the encouragement or
promotion of self-harm.
(c) Encouraging or promoting self-harm in the
presence of a child is a class A misdemeanor."
REPRESENTATIVE CARPENTER objected. He moved to table Amendment
9.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:04:45 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Carpenter, Gray,
Groh, Allard, and Vance voted in favor of tabling Amendment 9.
Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore, Amendment 9
was tabled by a vote of 5-1.
CHAIR VANCE sought final comment from the bill sponsor on SSHB
11.
5:05:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON opined that the bill was a good public
policy call because it would provide the state with a greater
ability to protect children and send an important message. He
urged passage of SSHB 11.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD thanked the bill sponsor for bringing the
bill forward.
5:06:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN, in final comment, questioned how to
articulate whether a child was harmed [by witnessing an assault]
if the bill did not require that the child was aware of the
assault when it occurred. He argued that the bill would add a
new punishment, ostensibly based on harm to a child; however, in
some instances, a person could be convicted [of assault in the
presence of a child] wherein child wasn't harmed in any
demonstrable way. He asserted that there were ways to target
harm to a child, but instead, the bill was focused on the
reckless disregard standard. He characterized the bill as "very
broad" and critiqued the committee for choosing not to "flesh
out" some of aspects on the record.
5:09:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to report SSHB 11 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.
5:09:30 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Allard, Carpenter,
ray, Groh, and Vance voted in favor of reporting SSHB 11 out of
committee. Representative Eastman voted against it. Therefore,
SSHB 11 was reported out of the House Judiciary Standing
Committee by a vote of 5-1.
5:10:01 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 5:10 p.m. to 5:13 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB 129 - Amendment #1 (B.7) by Chair Vance.pdf |
HJUD 5/5/2023 1:00:00 PM HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 - Amendment #2 (B.8) by Chair Vance.pdf |
HJUD 5/5/2023 1:00:00 PM HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 - Amendment #3 (B.4) by Rep. Eastman.pdf |
HJUD 5/5/2023 1:00:00 PM HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 - Amendment #4 (B.5) by Rep. Eastman.pdf |
HJUD 5/5/2023 1:00:00 PM HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 - Amendment #5 (B.3) by Rep. Eastman.pdf |
HJUD 5/5/2023 1:00:00 PM HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |
| HB 129 - Amendment #6 (B.9).pdf |
HJUD 5/8/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 129 |